1. Tony

    Miss Laura,
    Although I truly understand the dilemma of being under the “submission” of MEN, do I detect an underlying resentment of men (feminism), because of your past dealings with unscrupulous “leaders”? In today’s society, the corruption runs very deep, and the attacks come from many different sources and directions. I’m frightful of the deception these lies are perpetrating on the total society. My heart goes out to you and people like you who have had to endure such abuse. But, please, don’t sell all men short because of a few bad actors. I, too, have endured an abusive relationship, a controlling spouse (non-believer), but I’m trying to follow the Bible wrt LOVE. I am trying to be discerning and humble in this fallen world. I mean no offense, just sharing in my Christian thoughts….and my curiosity.
    “In God We Trust”

  2. Suzanne

    As someone who has had her share of experiences with these cults (I call them “doctrines of demons” as they are so demonic), I can spot this stuff a mile away. The faces may often be new or repackaged, but the “fruit” is still the same – and threats are a HUGE part of the fruit they exhibit when anyone dare question them. I have been threatened, branded an apostate, “committed to the hands of Satan” for my disobedience, rejected, maligned, and told I was rebellious all because I dared question anything these “anointed ones” did. (And, I argue the “anointed” doctrine is a very false one taken from a misapplied scripture)

    Fast forward 20 years later and it’s still the same except the apostasy is far more widespread and far less questioned or discerned. So sad. “The great falling away” is upon us.

    But don’t take my word for it. My suggestion to the skeptics is to pray, ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit, stay in the Word of God, and – DO YOUR HOMEWORK on Chan, Mike Bickle, Lou Engle, IHOP Ministries, The Call (Now The Send), Dr. Michael Brown, Joel Richardson (End Times), Kansas City Prophets, Toronto Blessing, (I could list hundreds), etc. You will find numerous testimonies of former members, doctrinal heresy, authoritarianism and threats.

    Scripture tells us to “Correct, rebuke and admonish one another in love.” Meaning: we do so not to judge the person, but the doctrine; we do so in order to protect one anther from the wolves; we do so in the hopes that they will come to the truth; we do so because our Lord did so and commanded us to do likewise; we do so because we are told “not to believe every spirit (doctrine or teaching)” but to “test the spirits”; we do so because we have been given the gift of discernment to be exercised for the “maturing and equipping of the saints”.

    The argument that we judge and refute openly, and the argument not to judge others is an age-old Satan trick to get us to be silent and paralyze us with fear and false guilt so we won’t expose his lies. I, for one, will not remain silent. Lives are at stake.

  3. JDV

    “I’ve listened to and read Frances Chan for years. He loves the Lord, loves others and I would hope that the folks here, that are talking about him have confronted him in love personally, before bashing him publicly, if they feel he is in error.”

    First, the “bash” assumption is telling and insinuates a characteristic as far as motives on which the burden of proof is on the one insinuating. Pointing out error — say, per Galatians 2 — or discussing the possibility of it isn’t automatically bashing.

    Second, the implied Matthew 18 applicability as suggested seems to need some relevant context. It is Chan whose comments may be seen as a rebuke on actions, a rebuke — one that could have a chilling effect on checking error from not only faithful leaders but hirelings and grievous wolves — that wasn’t delivered “personally”.

    Thus, shouldn’t replies in a public manner, such as in blog posts or message board discussions as to applicability and merits, to general rebukes delivered publicly be considered within that context?

  4. Dee

    I’ve listened to and read Frances Chan for years. He loves the Lord, loves others and I would hope that the folks here, that are talking about him have confronted him in love personally, before bashing him publicly, if they feel he is in error.
    When I go research for myself the videos Frances Chan is being scrutinized over, I find that there is usually no warranting the negative feedback.
    I believe if we all had our lives and ministries focused on and in Jesus, we would all serve in God’s Kingdom more effectively. People are not going to be led astray if they are led by Jesus, their Bibles and the Holy Spirit. “Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind and soul and love others as yourself.” We all make mistakes. Leaders who do, if not treated with forbearance, should be confronted privately, personally, first.
    I look at the “watch dog ministries” and compare them to other Bible based ministries and wonder who is more effective for building up the Kingdom of God?

  5. Keep uo the good work of Jesus Christ , more grace to u and Me too sir/ma .
    Intensify prayer for holy ghost revival to church of Christ Jesus for power to stand this perilous time and having done all to stand .
    God bless his people and make his elect sake , amen .

  6. Dorothy King

    I too came out of a church situation where women were pushed to live in church-sanctioned homes and then marry the men in the congregation. I was working and single at the time and they also asked me to turn over my wages to the church and move into a home with other single women. I openly asked them “why do you ask me to do this?” They responded that you have to submit yourself to the church’s authority and to become part of the church body. I knew it is was trouble and it was a cult. I was living at the time in a city where I saw the rise of cults like Hare Krishna, Children of God (Moses Berg), Jehovah’s Witnesses, The Moonies and Mormons. I walked out of that church and left the church all together. I came out of the Jesus Movement and when I was a new Christian, I had solid teaching from a wise spiritual mentor who taught me truth. So reading your story is right up my alley and I knew it was wrong. I have now enough solid bible teaching to know truth from lies. I firmly stand first on the Word of God and read my bible. I pray and use the words of Paul the Apostle to know how to be spiritually discerning and to use the weapons of our warfare against our enemy Satan the devil. And now I mentor my nephew and his wife by standing beside them and praying over their lives and sharing what I have learned and been taught. They had to leave their old church due to serious issues with the church authority and now have found a solid bible believing church and sober and wise leaders to guide them both as a young married couple and 30-somethings.

  7. Laura Smentek

    This is scary… but I bare wittness to it. This is very scary.
    That ‘by the words he is saying he may sadly be pronouncing judgement upon himself.’
    I understand what you are saying.
    We truly need discernment in this day and age.

  8. Laura Smentek

    The enemy is good at what he does! He has been doing it since time began. He knew what to say to Eve!
    “When reproof and correction start being labeled criticism, it shows a spiritual elitism by a self appointed class of celebrity Christians.” This is the snake slithering along….

  9. Laura Smentek

    This whole topic sends chills down my spine. I am 54 now. But in the mid 80’s …. I attended a charismatic church with my family.
    Where do I even begin?! I was young then … 18..19 years old. I won’t go into the details except to say that I began to get a check in my Spirit from the Holy Spirit to leave the church . ( I was living in a communal house on the church property with youth leaders. Thirty young people lived there. Young women upstairs… young men downstairs.)
    I knew I would have to tell my leaders what I sensed the Lord telling me. The Lord warned me to walk in absolute humility and meekness when I spoke to them. Not act arrogant or in pride. I did.
    But I was met with anger on unimaginable levels. I was told I was “in rebellion and that I did not want to submit to my authority. I was told that I was so young and they are the leaders so who do I think was hearing from the Lord?”
    This threw me into confusion. I began to repent… thinking perhaps I really was in rebellion.
    Then my youth leader began to almost ‘stalk’ me…. looking for even the smallest of infraction so he could prove I was ‘rebellious.’
    But… as I would go back into prayer snd seek the Lord and even try to ‘repent of supposed rebellion’ … the Lord kept telling me I needed to leave the community home and the church.
    Finally … it all came to a head… as one evening I was accused of some trivial legalistic infraction… and I heard the Lord whisper to me; “Agree with your accuser.”
    So… in humility I just apologized for the ‘ infraction’ repented and simply thanked him and his wife for their leadership over the coarse of two years and told him I felt I was meant to be there for a season but the season was over.
    At first he was frustrated with me when I ‘agreed with my accuser – him’ because he wants me to act rebelliously. He didn’t know what to do with calm … humility. But then he just got really angry and yelled at me; “I want you out of here by Monday.”
    So I left the church .. moved back home with my parents.
    But I still struggled for months.
    The enemy kept whispering to me that ‘God did not love me anymore because I left that church.’ I was rejected by all my peers when I left. I was wounded and began to doubt that I had heard God.
    Well… six months after I left that church went through a huge church split. The pastors wife was confronted being in an affair with the worship leader. One associate pastor was embezzling money from the church. And the pastor raised up to confront this stuff went to my youth leaders and told them they would be shutting the communal home down because ‘God’s annointing had left it a long time ago.’ !!!!!
    I was in shock. I realized I had been hearing the Lord all along!
    Leaving there was like leaving a cult!
    During the 80’s there was a movement sweeping through the church at that time … called; “The Shepherding Movement.” A very controlling and manipulative leadership movement. You can ‘google’ it.

    So … all I can say to someone like Chan is… “Don’t even go there with me. Don’t even start.”
    Spiritual Abuse is alive and well.

    I try to have a healthy balance. I know we are to have a healthy respect for leadership. But not unquestionable allegiance.

    I try to keep from gossip or causing division. But keep in mind…. that gossip and causing division is also controlling and manipulative!

    What Lighthouse Trails is doing is not controlling and manipulative. They are ‘sounding an alarm.’ Huge difference! And why does Lighthouse not get legitimate answers back from the likes of Warren and the new age teaching and his ties to Robert Schuller? “A Coarse In Miracles” sends chills down my spine.
    It took me years to recover from all of that. Because of the mind games. You are left so disillusioned. You … question what truth is. You question your own sanity. It’s very serious to the Lord. “Do not cause any of my ‘little ones’ to stumble.”

    Jesus said; “My sheep hear My voice.”
    Not just those in leadership! Apostle Paul said to test even him to make sure he is of the faith! Test the Spirits. We … are individually responsible to keep ourselves from being deceived.

    Even now… all these years later… I can sense manipulation and control. I look back now… and look at churches and ministry today and I can’t believe how people get pulled in. Why do we give men so much power over us? In ministry we are volunteering our time! We aren’t even getting paid to do what we do in churches if you aren’t on the paid staff! Why … do we think that these ‘supposed’ leaders think they should have so much ‘authority’ over us?! Think about this. Seriously.
    I look back at that church now. (My parents stayed on after the church split for some 30 years. Once the deception was confronted). None of those same people are even there! All those ‘leaders’ who ‘thought’ they were ‘somebody’ and exerting all that power over people then… are long gone! At the time …. you ‘think’ THEY have the final say over your life! It’s crazy! It’s laughable.
    “The fear of man is a snare.” The Bible states.
    I see ‘church’ and ‘ministry’ in a totally different light now.
    I am not about ‘men’s kingdoms.’ Anytime any ‘so called leader’ or ‘ministry’ tries to … take on some kind of ‘authority ‘ over me… I just step back and almost laugh. ( Now there is healthy submission. In marriage.. in the church.) But it’s HEALTHY. So we can all work together in unity. And I am not above being corrected at times either. I want to walk in humility and not pride. But you can discern …. the true from the false. True authority will be clothed in humility!!! NOT control and manipulation.

    Jesus sent out His disciples and told them; “Be wise as serpants but gentle as doves.”

  10. John J

    Marie, I’m almost a year late with my reply, but yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. This is the Calvinists’ way; you don’t worship their man gods, you are disobeying the sovereign ‘god’ of Calvinism/the Reformed fallacy, whoever that is…

  11. David, no one here is defending the practice of gossip or slander – those things are wrong for sure. But Francis Chan is not just talking about those things. He is strongly suggesting that anyone who criticizes leaders or pastors will be destroyed by God. He is basically trying to silence those who are challenging Christian leaders for their false teachings today, and that is wrong also. Not only that, but it is extremely manipulative and spiritually dangerous.

  12. David

    I’m so confused, why people are so upset about this, did anyone listen to this sermon before they commented? This message was amazing. Main points:

    1. We are part of the temple of God (as the body of Christ)
    2. Let us not back a bit and destroy one another (Gods temple), through gossip and slander (being divisive among believers)
    3. Let’s repent of how we have torn others down and turn to God so we can begin building the church up. (which will lead to people coming into a safe place and learning about Jesus)

    Everything he talked about I just saw in the last year at our church, our pastor passed away and immediately there were division and slandering of others, we lost almost half of our church because people were so angry with one another. Can you imagine what would have happened if we (my self included) would have viewed Gods body (his temple) as more sacred than my personal opinions about other people?

    I dont see any reason to reject these 3 main points (Im sure there was more), but rather I think all believers should embrace this message and repent. Rather than deconstructing the church, we need to think of how we can construct the church.

    If you have listened to this full message and feel like I am off on the 3 main points please help me understand.

    Thank you and God bless

  13. admin

    Dear MR: The link goes to the entire video, easy for anyone to watch the entire thing. If anyone is not showing love and is being unduly judgmental, it is Francis Chan who is suggesting that God will kill anyone who challenges Christian leaders. This is very wrong.

  14. Mr

    Why is your link starting at 2.10 minutes in and not giving a context to what he was saying? How is your post about love? Love is the filter that should guide all of your posts as it’s the primary core of what Jesus was about. I see no love here, just judgement and by that link being 2.10 minutes into the video it gives a false representation of what he’s actually concerned about.

  15. Scott

    Are these not the days predicted of apostasy? This man seemed to ‘get it’s. He seemed to see the things the virgin bride now sees. The victim with oil in her lamp. Now? He seems ten times a sin of hell. How now will be fine life? I know this; I sure have been led down some stupidities and attitudes that were way off. Always the Lord brings me back- To Himself. This is way beyond this. Pray for this man to turn. It will not be his predictions that materialize. Make no mistake- This guy will be a leader alright. He will be the one hunting all the born again ones who will not join his club.

  16. Elizabeth Bennett

    Emergents preach that those who disagree with them should leave their church or die. Where is their love? How can Chan say that God will destroy us? Is Chan God?

  17. CW

    The article says: “Chan took it a step further and described incidents in the Bible where God took people’s lives as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:10) to predict that God will take the lives of those who have negative things to say about the teachings of today’s spiritual leaders.” — What??? This is really scary. I wish I could ask him why he took that scripture passage out of context. God judged Ananias and Sapphira because they lied to Him about what they did with the price of land they sold! Shaking my head here in deep sadness and great concern for the Body of Christ if they’re believing this nonsense (and I’m sure that MANY of them are, especially those at Bethel who are already accustomed to receiving unbiblical beliefs).

  18. Lyra

    “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and shall bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not” (2 Peter 2:1-3 KJV). “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Ephesians 5:11 KJV). God Bless Lighthouse Trails Research!

  19. Daniel

    I pick up on this: “Oftentimes, this cultish mentality is compounded by the idea that the members of the church should trust the pastor’s discernment more than their own because the pastor is more mature and in tune with the things of God.” It is in reality the syndrome that the Catholic and Vatican Church has imposed on people for centuries. The sad thing is that these that some would continue to call Protestant Churches leaders, are now perhaps in a more palatable manner, returning to the vomit that bereft a complete population of Christ, using a deceiving shadow of protection under His Name. Unfortunately Francis Chan has added to this down spiral trajectory. He may be using the judgment in a reverse psychology upon himself in suggesting the destruction of some by God. By the words he is saying he may sadly be pronouncing judgment upon himself. Jesus has said: Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work

  20. Vic

    Looks like Mr. Chan made perfection attainment in his eyes. (Mat 5:48)  Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

  21. Miriam Donnell

    It is uplifting LT is a huge voice against these actions of false teachers that so many people are blindly following. It is shocking the deceit that these “church leaders” are teaching- they should know the truth- so you have to ask- are they themselves deceived?- or are they deceiving people on purpose?- are they actually jesuits infiltrating these building claiming to be raised in the name of gathering christians?- or is it a massive effort to bring about the new new false world religion? They get all the radio stations, the tv stations- they are the riches, funnest, most popular feel good messages out there- but they do not have the KJV Bible nor even know the word of God to teach or be convicted of. How can a real Christian leader go against the word of God in such a twisted way and also claim to know God? It is clearly unscriptural just based on Acts 17:11 alone- let alone the rest of our character to be Godly sand stand for truth- being salt and light in the world- 11 reads-These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Today’s church “buildings” are full of people & leaders who do not read the KJV Bible nor even know the reasons why they should.

  22. John DeWitt

    Christ about the humility like a child and humility creates in us a teachable heart that makes us pliable to the instruction of the word unto righteousness. This includes agreeing with the word when it states the inspired Word of God is profitable for reproof and correction. When reproof and correction start being labeled criticism, it shows a biblical spiritual elitism by a self appointed class of celebrity Christians. At some point a celebrity ministry becomes to big to fail, so to speak, that hiding doctrinal error is more important than humility.

  23. MB

    Scott, having written: “And I am totally appalled at lighthousetrailresearch. You are nothing but the accuser of the brotheran.. Its a miracle that Christians would want to follow any man of God with people like you in this world. There are no Bible verses for your cowardly slandering the backside of your brothers.” Are you not guilty of the very thing you and Chan condemn? See, that is (just part of) the folly and egregious error of this. So, according to Chan (and yourself), you are in danger of being “destroyed” by God.

  24. MB

    Which godly leader in Scripture warned others (or even subtly threatened them) to never criticize leaders? How many cult leaders/followers (or plain ol’ false teachers) warned others to not criticize their leaders? How many Scriptures are there that exhort us to warn others of error, false teachings, and false teachers (e.g. wolves)? Who, exactly, would not want us to warn of wolves, false teachings, etc?

  25. Chas

    It is ironic that Chan (and others) would use 1st Cor. 3:17 to support of the “touch not God’s anointed” ruse. If one reads the verse closely, it is the Church that is God’s anointed, not the leader being questioned. Chan has failed to see–or is deliberately trying to hide the fact–that Paul’s warning is directed at him–Chan–not to the believer asking the questions. But Chan’s “don’t touch God’s anointed” tactic is nothing new. The “anointed” heretics who appear on TBN from as far back as the ’70s helped make it popular among WF Movement “teachers”. Kenneth Hagin was one of the first I heard use it, and Ken Copeland was right behind him. Benny Hinn (he of the “Holy Ghost machine gun” approach) was quick to pick up the tactic, along with Dwight Thompson, Paul Crouch, John Avanzini and a host of other WF culprits. The frequency of the tactic’s deployment seemed to be proportional to the amount of exposure-as false-teacher the particular “anointed” was experiencing at the time. Chan must be feeling the heat.

  26. Anna Rosa

    In response to the comment Scott Trester left: I totally agree with LT here and disagree with Francis and Scott. You are the ones in great error. Please repent. And this is how satan twists Scripture to silence the truth; by pointing to David and Saul and ‘touching the Lord’s anointed’. Learn how to interpret Scripture. It was not about public refutation but killing Saul. And WE are the Lord’s anointed, not the wolves. And, in that story, David is a type of Jesus and Saul of the antichrist and devil. The devil was the ‘anointed cherub,’ who still is ‘the god of this world’ until the return of Christ, David’s wait period is symbolic of the time until Jesus reigns. Jesus could have destroyed him but this will happen later. Also, it says that the Lord left Saul several times. Saul goes after David to destroy him but David prevails. The apostate camp aligns themselves with Saul & antichrist, of course!

  27. Sola Scriptura

    ** I meant to say that Saul was hand chosen by “God,” and the references for the “touch not God’s anointed” are 1 Samuel 24:9-19 and 1 Samuel 26:7-14. Interestingly, Saul humbled himself and repented both times David called him out publicly for pursuing and trying to kill him, David, a righteous man. So Saul did what most leaders won’t even consider today. He listened to a sound, godly rebuke, and for a time, turned to truth. Remember: “But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

  28. Sola Scriptura

    Pointing to David is a false analogy. First of all, David was actually criticizing Saul publicly but wouldn’t let his men KILL him. Secondly, Saul was actually anointed by a prophet hand chosen by men, vs. these self appointed liars. As for criticizing leaders, check Galatians 2 where Paul challenges Peter PUBLICLY when he was harming the gospel by becoming a hypocrite. A few others for you: “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭16:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬ “This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;” ‭‭Titus‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬ “A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;” ‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬ “And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I could go on and on. In Acts 20, Paul warns the brethren with tears that wolves would arise from within the church. Only the truth of the gospel matters, not the reputation of men.

  29. admin

    Mike, Among other things, he specifically mentioned three men who should not be criticized but who do teach false doctrine: Rick Warren, Mark Driscoll, and John Piper. All three of those men are major proponents of the highly dangerous and unbiblical contemplative prayer movement, for example.

  30. Scott Trester

    I totally agree with Francis here. And I am totally appalled at lighthousetrailresearch. You are nothing but the accuser of the brotheran.. Its a miracle that Christians would want to follow any man of God with people like you in this world. There are no Bible verses for your cowardly slandering the backside of your brothers. You are the one in great error. Please repent. Learn how afraid David was to slander the Lords Anointed.. Speaking of King Saul. Awesome Video

  31. Mike A

    Soooo…..I read your write-up and listened to the speech, did we watch the same thing? I think you very much missed the point of his message that was clearly demonstrated by many examples, especially at the beginning. The point was, those who speak “flippantly” or in “divisive” ways (which have the connotation of not in accordance with truth). I don’t see anywhere in his talk where he condemns calling out false doctrine.

  32. T. I. Miller

    Jesus, the way the truth and the light, was attacked religious leaders. If they had known the Father they would have received Him instead. Jesus publicly exposed them as hypocrites and as false teachers. Jesus overturned the tables in the Temple and denounced the spiritual leaders. Paul publicly confronted the Apostle Peter for hypocrisy. Obedience to those in authority does not imply blind obedience. Even pastors whose doctrine is sound can be filled with pride. They can begin to think more highly of themselves than they ought. They can stop being shepherds and become authoritarian bullies. It is wrong to say I follow Paul or I follow Apollos or I follow my pastor or any other, so called, spiritual leader.

  33. CW

    RE: “If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Corinthians 3:17). This does NOT pertain to simple disagreement with a leader. I’ve read and enjoyed two of Chan’s books in the past, and I am frankly shocked that he would say such a thing. This is frightening to me, for his sake. It reminds me of the similar misuse of the scripture which says “Touch not God’s anointed”. Oh my, that was used to pronounce certain destruction on MANY people back in the day, and AFAIK they’re still alive. And really, what was Chan doing at Bethel in the first place? IMHO, he should know better.

  34. Ken

    Don’t forget that Francis Chan took an agnostic view of Hell being eternal, conscious, torment, in his book, “Erasing Hell.” In 7/5/2011, “Christianity Today,” he said that “good Godly men took the annihilation view.” Chan seems to operate on his feelings rather than scripture.

  35. Anna Rosa

    Wow! 1. Yes, we are supposed to fight heresy, false teaching, apostasy, and sin in the church; the Bible tells us to! One commentator left more than enough bible verses for that. 2. The leaders he mentioned are some of the biggest wolves of the apostasy hall of fame and should be exposed for their heresy! 3. Just like the Bible says, we will be persecuted and much of it comes from within the false church. As it says in Matt. 24; brother will betray brother, and this one: “They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me.” John 16; 2-3 4. WE are the temple and the shepherds and sheep dogs protecting the sheep from the wolves like Francis Chan and those he endorses!

  36. MB

    So, if any of us challenge Chan here (or on anything else) are we “being divisive” and in danger of God destroying us? If so, then we cannot even challenge him on his teaching that we cannot challenge him. Hmmmmmm Apart from that being anti-Scriptural and illogical, it is also an eerily similar tactic of deadly cults … when they threaten “Touch not the Lord’s annointed!” Yet should I now feel in danger of being destroyed by God for exposing this? There is another common tactic here of false teachers: they are the ones who are, biblically speaking, guilty of causing division (e.g. Rom 16:17-18) yet they often FALSELY accuse people (those who expose their error/wrongdoing) of being divisive and causing trouble [“And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?” (1 Kgs 18:17) (see also 1 Kgs 22:12ff)] Furthermore, and in further irony, Chan refers repeatedly to Titus 3:10 about division, yet the word used is “hairetikos” (heretick) which is defined as: schismatic, factious, a follower of a false doctrine. So, again, it is the teacher of false doctrine that divides and destroys us, NOT the person who exposes false teaching, and, again, false teachers often blame the “exposer” for the division caused by the false teacher!

  37. John

    Chan has served as a public relations vehicle for the International House of Prayer, “lefitimizing” IHOP by speaking at Onething, the annual IHOP extravaganza.

  38. Tony

    The great irony is IHOP leader Mike Bickell lays hands on Chan…speaking of destroying God’s temple!

  39. Roy Schlamp

    Titus 3:10-11 K.J.V. A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. NRSV: have nothing more to do with is perverted and sinful… NIV: Warn a anyone who causes divisions, since you know that such a person divisive person once and then warn him a second time…. NASB: Reject a factious man … NKJV: Reject a ASV: A divisive man … factious man after a first and second admonition refuse… NWT: A man that pr omotes a sect reject him… AMP:… a man who is factious… Here we have the word ‘heretic’ (one who teaches heresy) replaced by words that in no way render the same meaning. Jesus Christ walked this earth as a factious and a divisive person! Should He be warned and rejected? Is He perverted and sinful? He came preaching the truth and it brought much division; and rose up a faction within the religious community. The true Gospel is quite divisive and factious. Should we stop preaching the truth so we do not cause a division between those who will not receive the truth and those who will? No, but we should reject a person who is a her etic! (if he rejects two admonitions.)

  40. Karen L.

    If those people that followed Jim Jones, David Koresh, Heaven’s Gate, and others, questioned their teachings and had discernment, they would all be alive today. Questioning “leaders” in churches or the books they write, is being discerning. God does not want anyone to blindly follow any man. Most people like Chan that get that angry, are usually concerned that they will be questioned next. He needs to understand that he words are watched for his own good, he must be above reproach. We discern and question for the love of God’s people, do they not do the same. I believe that in these last days many teachers like Chan, are ready to embrace all religions, “for the sake of love”. I heard one ‘leader’ say..”I wish I had a holy spirit machine gun to shoot all the heresy hunters.” That terrified me for that person. We can’t be bullied into false scriptural submission. We fight for God’s truth…we can do less.

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