LTRP Note: Over the past few months, since we released Calvinism: None Dare Call It Heresy (which caused such a firestorm), we have received many letters, phone calls, and e-mails similar to the one below. We tell you this so you do not think that what this letter is saying is just an isolated case. It isn’t. While the specific circumstances may be different in each case, the feelings of isolation, confusion, and dismay are a thread that run through many of the correspondences we have received. In spite of the loss of support and care for Lighthouse Trails since releasing this book, we still believe it is what we were supposed to do. Calvinism represents a “God” who does not want every human being to be saved and a gospel that does not believe John 3:16 that “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Dear Lighthouse Trails:
The Self Proclaimed Elect. That’s what should be in neon letters on the sign of the Southern Baptist Church we currently attend in a small town. The Self Proclaimed Elect.
We moved to this small town as quintessential Yankees without having done any real homework. My spouse and I always considered ourselves devout, but “garden variety” believers in Jesus Christ, along with everyone else we’ve ever known. We joined the largest church in town, largest population in a church, and it is strongly affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. Half the town appears to attend this church or a few small other Baptist churches in the area.
We have now attended as members for over 4 years. The first few years, everything looked and sounded OK to us. Even the New Members class didn’t seem to have any red flags. But, the concept of “election” and “predestination” was openly taught as fact. We were confused a little by it but didn’t see why it should be of any concern. We were wrong. Way wrong.
What began to be noticed by the both of us after a while were the negative whispers from several members as to who is elect and who is not. We thought they were talking about “saved.” They weren’t. And the harsh judgmental comments always came from the same group of individuals—the top social class of the church. I grew up in a very class conscious neighborhood and admit I am sensitive to places where there seems to be a “popular kids” table at every function where no one else is welcome. I was often picked last for teams at recess and socially rejected as a kid so I am still very conscious of it as an adult. And this church had that element—on steroids. I had never seen anything like this before, and it was becoming very unnerving to be a part of it. We were already aware that rural Southern towns don’t like outsiders. But this was way beyond that. They accepted us at first—but only out of momentary curiosity. It was like we were two monkeys in a zoo cage and they just wanted to read your plaque—and then tell their kids to move along before you bit them. It was rapidly becoming very isolating and hurtful, but we figured, hey, it’s a little town in the South. That’s just the way it is.
But then the whispers about being unelect began to get aimed directly at us. Hard. After a few years, despite active involvement in the church’s various ministries, we began to get ostracized and the popular kids table became openly cold, distant, and even outright hostile towards us. And the big shock came when we were forced to realize it was coming from the top.
All I knew about this Pastor was that he was a devoted follower of John Piper, John MacArthur, Mark Dever, RC Sproul, Al Mohler, and many others. He is also a faithful attendee of the yearly T4G conference. Still, it wasn’t registering. But he was himself keeping a painful distance from us and his wife has never introduced herself to us once in the entire 5 years we have been there, even though I myself attend many of her choir rehearsals. That’s where my own red flag first went up. . . . . Yet we all still faithfully attend because he’s the most high profile Pastor at least in our surrounding counties. And he’s overall a good teacher. At least, as long as you are completely clueless as to what he’s actually saying. And we were becoming less clueless with every sermon.
That’s when we discovered the Not So Wonderful World of Calvinism. After doing months of research, I especially started to go from confused, disappointed, to now worried, and then outright scared. We were somehow now declared unelect. . . .
And, then the worst hit me: What if I really am unelect? And why would that even make sense? The Pastor teaches consistently to new members and believers that none of us know who the elect will be. . . . But how in the world does he know he even is? He can’t possibly have that assurance if he’s telling us we don’t. If Jesus died for practically no one, how can he give that pitch that he, his wife, his kids and anyone he personally likes is elect – and then warn us we might not be? I had really liked and respected this pastor. Now I was becoming terrified of him. . . . I’d sit through his sermons now hearing every Calvinist nuance he was saying. . . . I could see I was heading down that dark dangerous road of starting to believe it myself – that maybe I’m not elect since I am in doubt of the validity of their theology altogether.
All I have studied tells me clearly never to challenge their theology to their faces – especially a Senior Pastor with lifelong indoctrination into this theology. You will instantly become devastated by this. He/they will tell you that you just don’t have “ears to hear and eyes to see.” And then they’ll walk away saying to themselves with certainty, “Well, that one’s sure not elect.” So you can’t talk about it to anyone whatsoever. And, already feeling very isolated, this was starting to shake our faith altogether.
I would watch their many mission teams go away to far off places and now wondered, “What’s the point in that?” They keep saying that they are going out to “save the lost.” But they’re not. They’re going out to call out the elect before it’s too late. And the elect only. Of whom they have no idea either way. Even about themselves. This isn’t right. If Jesus died for only the elect and no one else, why would God waste His time putting him here in the first place? That makes no sense. But it seems to make perfect sense to them. Because, from the Pastor on down, they have absolute certainty they have been chosen to be saved without actually ever making the choice. And it was almost now obsessively messing with our heads.
I began to go from hoping to fit in to just keeping to myself and not wanting to talk to anyone at all. Being from a different culture, it’s easy to say the wrong thing and offend someone here in general. Now it could have lifelong consequences to be rejected this way. I would only sit with a few people I know and avoid even saying hello to anyone else. What if I say or question something and it throws up red flags to them that I am in doubt of their beliefs? How much worse would that make it for both of us?
My spouse quit going. I would make excuses for him in relation to his job. But he just quit going. And I can’t blame him. I have been as terrified to leave as to stay. If I leave, then they’ll all say, “Well, we called that one correctly. Unelect. Not one of us.” I have continued to go only out of defiance and the fact that there’s really no other place to go here without running into the same theology. So, I take in what he says that I perceive as biblical truth and throw out the rest. And that is mentally exhausting to do. And causing a lot of despair. The blatant social rejection there just reinforces to me every Sunday I walk out of the service that I should be scared I’m not saved. Or, worse, not elect. I should be doubting myself. They sure do. When the Pastor himself doesn’t speak to us or want us anywhere near his family or close inner circle, it becomes a constant mental and spiritual battle not to let this take root as a permanent choking source of deep worry. I’ve cried over this many times in frustration. And, frankly, in stark terror.
So, we’re doing the only thing that can be done. And it’s long overdue. We’re renovating our house and putting it on the market. We’re getting out. Out of this town. And maybe out of the Baptist South altogether. It’s almost embarrassing that we’re fleeing this 1,000 person church without confrontation. But I’m taking seriously the advice of other Non-Calvinists. Don’t engage. Just get out. Don’t waste your time. They’ll destroy you. And you may never recover.
I don’t know where we’ll end up from here. But I especially think I need time to heal and re-grow my faith, which has been badly shaken by this 5-year experience. I continue to read and watch non-Calvinist preachers, and it’s a great comfort for me. It’s the only way I don’t feel completely alone and the only one damaged by this teaching. The good news is that, we now know what we don’t ever want to see in a church again. Our eyes and ears are wide open. Infinitely more so than our church Pastor and members will ever know.
Thank you for listening.
Anonymous in The South
(photo from bigstockphoto.com; used with permission)
I have listened to Dr. Flower’s podcast and it’s really great. He speaks in love but is unwavering about his views on the false doctrine the Calvinism. Would love to see many more like him out there who can speak articulately from their own Calvinist experience. Because I don’t care if you are a benevolent, well spoken, well meaning, handsome and charismatic pastor who otherwise says good biblical rhetoric—–if you’re indoctrinating your flock with a false Calvinist Gospel, you’re a false teacher. Period.
A good website to help guide people OUT of Calvinism is put together by en ex-Calvinist named Dr. Leighton Flowers. His website is Soteriology 101 and it is a reasoned, kind, non-emotional rebuttal to Calvinism and the purveyors of this teaching. It has MANY articles and has already helped one member of my family leave the hyper-reformed behind. I would also emphasize that it is really almost pointless to argue with many of the reformed folks. Just leave, friend, and thank God that He showed you the fallacy of this teaching.
Thanks so much! I’ve started reading his site and it looks great and very helpful.
Thank you so much for reading my article. And to Lighthouse Trails for graciously publishing it.
Anonymous
Check out Beyond the Fundamentals on Youtube. It is a wonderful channel which scripturally debunks Calvinism and teaches biblical interpretation. I have learned a lot and am prayerfully trying de-Calvinize my friend or at the least make him doubt the doctrines of Calvinism. The host of the channel always reiterates that Calvinism has zero scriptural authority. This is true. It is a wonderful faith building channel. The pastor of this ministry also has a website with the majority of resources free: http://www.beyondthefundamentals.com/ . Here is a page with class notes in pdf form from the videos. My favorite is “Election: It’s nothing like you were told” (http://www.beyondthefundamentals.com/class-notes.html). I hope you and your husband find the comfort, peace, freedom and power which only the holy scriptures can afford you.
I understand a bit of what you’ve gone through (though yours is tougher). We just got a super-Calvinistic pastor who puts it into everything. It’s gotten so bad I refuse to listen anymore. Very Calvinistic people tend to be smug, condescending towards those who disagree. And it’s pointless to discuss it with them. They believe we are dishonoring God and denying the Bible, so they won’t listen. My pastor also uses manipulative tactics to strong-arm others to fall in line (to not disagree), such as “This is what the Bible says. You don’t have to like it but you do have to accept it. Disagreeing with this is disagreeing with God. Humble Christians have no trouble accepting this view, it’s only proud people who do.” And on and on. And I am so sick of hearing “RC Sproul says this, and RC Sproul says that.” But the good thing is that my anger caused me to go to the Word, to really dig in deeply and see what the Bible says, even going to the Greek and Hebrew words and earlier (more reliable) Bible translations. And it only confirmed to me more that Calvinism is not what the Bible teaches. I agree that it is a heretical teaching, even though the person might think they are honoring God by upholding His supreme authority over all. But I think they hurt the Gospel.
Very ironically, after I wrote this letter, I attended a service at the same church where the message was based on Ephesians 1:1-4 and specifically the topic of election. The Pastor almost quoted word for word what I wrote—about not being picked for teams at recess. But he used that illustration in a complete opposite way. He said that, because you were “chosen before the foundation of the world”, you are actually “picked first”, not last. And he took it further. He actually said, “If you do not believe in the concept of election, you will find yourself in dangerous company.” Fear. I felt he was literally using fear to drive out any doubt that Calvinism could be unsound doctrine. He said “I know this is hard to understand..but..” and then told the large congregation that they MUST believe in this concept deeply. Or be warned. Of what? That we’re not elect? I think it’s the most uncomfortable sermon I’ve ever sat through. And I watched many walk out with smiles that they’re “elect”. Will continue to pray and read on this topic. But grateful my letter has been read and responded to. It’s been a deep blessing and comfort.
In my study this morning I ran across this verse of Scripture, which made me think of the essence of hyper-Calvinism. Isaiah 66:5~ Here the word of the Lord, you who tremble at His word: Your brothers who hate you, who exclude you for My Name’s sake, have said, ‘Let the Lord be glorified, that we may see your joy. But they will be put to shame.’
I am very saddened to hear what this couple have gone through. It is simply not right!! However, I would like to comment that instead of the church they have attended being Calvinistic, they are instead hyper-Calvinistic. Hyper-Calvinists are legalists on steroids. I myself am a Calvinist as I see how God sovereignly works in the lives of individuals throughout Scripture. There is NOTHING I can do to deserve God’s mercy and so I can only be filled with gratitude for His mercy to me. That humbles me greatly and causes me to pray for His mercy to be extended to others as well as to extend mercy to others myself. ONLY God knows who are the elect as He alone knows the hearts of men. (Would we have chosen David or Samson, or even the Apostle Paul, for example. We have NO way to be final judges of what God is doing.) Any of us can experience doubts about our salvation at times, but as followers of Christ, we focus on Him by reading His Word and growing in our faith. We are to encourage others in the faith as well (we all need all the help we can get). Satan works overtime to deceive us in any way he can All Christians are in danger of falling into the camp of legalism – which is judging/comparing by human standards. May God in His mercy give us discernment in our day.
Thank you mam for sharing your burden. Mine is not Calvinism but Psychotherapy’s influence in my Independent Baptist Church
I grew up in this soul deadening doctrine. It deadens everything spiritual, our prayer life, our soul winning efforts, our relationship with Christ and others. I am going to believe God, “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” Romans 10:13 The reason that works is because the third petal of the Tulip is false, and the whole flower withers if that doctrine, the doctrine of limited atonement is wrong, and it is.
Anonymous, “In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men… see to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world and not according to Christ.” Baptists forget that 500 years ago, they were burned alive at the stake by Calvinists. Why? Because Baptists believe in adult baptism AFTER repentance and regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Baptism is a funeral, dying to the old; resurrected in the New. But this was considered heresy by the Calvinists who practiced infant baptism left over from Roman Catholicism, and the anabaptists were burned alive in that police state dumpster fire they call Geneva. The reason Calvinists are so aggressive is that because philosophically, Calvinism is islamic, not Christian. What is interesting is the muslims built a statue of John Calvin in Genenva. Why? Because both are held captive by the same lying spirit… “injah allah” = “whatever happens is the will of God/allah”. No it most certainly is not! They hyper magnify sovereignty to the exclusion of free will and choice, leaving only the “elect.” The Bible is the literal word of God… until you show them that Romans 9 is talking about nations in Gen 25:23 & Jer 18:6-7.
There is such a great need to follow Paul’s admonition to rightly divide the word of truth. Election and predestination have nothing to do with our salvation. Election has to do with God’s plan for Israel and the Elect one, their Messiah, Jesus.
I think an important sentence in your letter is that there are other Baptist churches in the area. I would at least try them before actually picking up and moving altogether. You are right, it is hard to see this in the Southern Baptist Org., but has been happening for many moons. Being grounded and now that you know the Calvinist haughty rigmarole, you may be able to choose another fellowship that is more fundamental in it’s teachings. By God’s grace, you are on the right trail now. 🙂
False Teachers have infiltrated our Churches in America since we became a nation. They divide and as Rick Warren has said: People need to get with the program or leave or even the older ones just need to die. To find a Bible Believing Church today is not easy. We all need to pray for the our brothers and sisters looking for a Bible Based assembly.
God is the giver of wisdom through His Word.It is alive and active and will lead you to The Truth and the Truth will set you free😇Put your sites on knowing God and His Will and Plans not on you or being elected or not .Its all about Genuinely Loving Our Father and He knows our hearts ♥️
It all comes down to God’s foreknowledge. Calvinists are right about election and predestination of the saved. That these are true the scriptures affirm. What they falsely assume is that them same applies to the lost, that they are predestined to be lost for that denies “whosoever will” and “for the sins of the whole world.” Anyone who chooses to be saved will be, and then will find out they were chosen, predestined and elected by God’s foreknowledge of their choice. The idea that anyone is chosen to go to hell flies in the face of many scriptures and God’s grace. Calvinists know nothing of grace.
As a southerner, and a Baptist, I am ashamed and embarrassed by your experience. Based on what you have shared your experience is in no way indicative of the vast majority of southern Baptist churches nor of the south in general. What you experienced was not the love of Jesus, but the Phariseeical theology of a people who have placed the traditions of men over the doctrines of God. Please take comfort in the fact that those people are not truly representing Jesus, Baptists or southerners. I wish you blessings in your journey ahead.
Dear “Anonymous”, Some Calvinists and Calvinist groups are the most grace-less creatures on earth. Some are just misled about the meaning of Scripture, led by the nose themselves by smooth-talking folk who manipulate the Scriptures. You’ve been embattled; the enemy of Christ and of your soul and mind, has tried to push you away from Christ and His true gospel. Engage that battle – the spiritual one – through diligent study of the Scripture, and much prayer. We are many, although some communities are sparse or empty of those who reject the blasphemy of Augustinianism in any of its faces. You may be required to walk alone here, just you and your husband; ask the Lord what He wants you to learn from that. And know that you only have to do one day at a time; you don’t have to “solve” all the problems at once. Draw closer to your spouse, and together draw closer to the Lord, and your wounds will heal, your mind will clear, and you will be strong. Then you are walking away from a lie and its purveyors – which we are called to do – not simply escaping pain. Grace and peace in Christ to you as you walk by the Spirit in His Truth.
I am also truly sorry to hear that so many have fallen away into Calvinism and don’t support LT as a result. I have noticed a trend I must share. I find that churches are falling into two camps. Either they are totally out there with the NAR, Bethel style dominionism, emergent, and revivalist circus act, or they are very conservative and stuffy even to a fault and fall into the Calvinist camp and hang on every word from these wolves’ mouths that are mentioned above! I have noticed so many in the discernment camp have fallen into that trap. I have become very isolated myself as a result of behavior of the few Christians around me who fit the mold described in this letter. Also, it is totally contradictory that they claim no one can know who is elect, but they think they can know who is not. What hypocrites!
I am so saddened to hear what this couple went through, and I know it is not an isolated case. Now I must say, it is always a danger to invest too much stock in what other people think, no matter how ‘high’ they are, how ‘popular’ they are, or how elect they think they are, or whatever. Your salvation is between you and the Lord, and no one else can mess with that relationship. If you think they can, you allow them to by so doing, don’t give them that power. It looks like none of these Calvinists in that church are saved to me. They are just using Calvinism as their popular kids club criteria. Don’t fall into that elitism and hierarchical trap of thinking they have any power over you, because they don’t! God bless you!
This breaks my heart. I wish I could reach out to this sister, wrap my arms around her and encourage her with words of truth – that Calvinism/Calvinists does not represent biblical Christianity and that there are Spirit born believers out there who would embrace them into the body of Christ as we are called to do and be.
Dear Sister, My heart can feel what you are feeling. We too have been in the same scenario (we ran out of a WOF, charismatic non denominational “church”) and it does take time to heal. We didn’t move away and even though it wasn’t a small town the isolation, knowing they were saying we were lost or fallen to the wayside and instantly losing tons of “friends” over night was disheartening. God has you in His hands though. Be of good cheer that He opened your eyes to see the truth, it’ll save you from so much more heartache than you’ve already endured. It took a year to come out of the fog and even still its hard( we left 4 years ago after attending and being deeply rooted for 2 years) I encourage you all to surround yourself with biblically sound teachers & preachers. Lighthouse Trails is great! All we could pull ourselves to do was to listen in on YouTube to a pastor we had been listening to for years. With God he helped heal a lot of hurt and confusion. We will praying for you, but please just know you’re not alone although the enemy would have you to feel you are. Try not to be afraid of being hurt, mislead and lied to again. It is a big hindrance that I still fight today. Proverbs 4:5 God Bless You
I can so relate to this person and I feel their pain.
Don’t you know it’s all about pride? God called thus and so, but not you. Somehow their filthy rags are more righteous than your filthy rags. Strange in light of scripture after scripture that says no one has a chance of ever reconciling to a righteous God apart from what Christ did for all of us on the cross. Dust off your feet and move on.
Oh Anonymous in the South, Get out now and don’t look back! I went through this at several churches. God has given you the gift of discernment. Quit worrying about what others will think. I played that game for so long. At one point i was terrified and thought, ‘away from me i never knew you’. I cried out to God and said ‘Do you know me?’ He led me immediately to John 10. Many deceivers out there and they’re getting worse and worse. I will be praying for you! Just keep in HIS word. READ JOHN 10. Love in Christ, Natalie